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రొట్టెల ఇల్లు | House of Bread | בית לחם Forum Index
రొట్టెల ఇల్లు | House of Bread | בית לחם Forum Index What Christians believe (Theology) Unknown Tongues
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:45 pm
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Caleb
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Unknown Tongues

Dear Pentecostal and Charismatic friends, please note:

1 Cor 14:2 KJV
ForG1063 he that speakethG2980 in an unknown tongueG1100 speakethG2980 notG3756 unto men,G444 butG235 unto God:G2316 forG1063 no manG3762 understandethG191 him; howbeitG1161 in the spiritG4151 he speakethG2980 mysteries.G3466

The controversial belief regarding unknown tongues arose from the above verse taken from the King James Bible. If you open your KJV and look up that verse, you will notice that the word "unknown" is in italics. If you see the preface to the KJV, you will come to know that all words in the KJV Bible that are italicized have been INSERTED by the translators into the verses to give them wholesome meaning when the Greek or Hebrew is translated into English. Those words were not there in the original!

For instance in the above verse the word unknown was inserted to give the sense that if a man speaks (in some language known elsewhere in the world) but unknown to those around, is known and understood by God. It does not mean it is some sort of an angelic tongue. In 1 Cor 13:1, Paul uses the expression "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels," only as a hyperbole to show how important love is. That there is some sort of a tongue for the angels, is only hypothetical, for use only in the said hyperbole.
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Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:06 pm
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Caleb
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Unknown Tongues: Verses clarified

Paul George of New Life Assemblies of God, Chennai wrote:
Quote:
i made a complete study of the gifts of tongues and understood again that its very much essential for the people of God
1 Corinthians 16:14 , acts 16
Why is it inevitable for the people of God..there are five reasons for it
* 1 Corinthians 14:4 (edifies himself)
* 1 Corinthians 14:5 (edifies the church)
* Acts 2 :11 (declaring the mighty works of God)
* 1 Corinthians 14:2 (not to men, but to GOD)
* Roman 8:26 (spirit intercedes for us with signs too deep for words)
for a christian this is inevitable for leading a holy life and to fight against demonic forces and darkness.. 1 Corinthians 14:22 says It penetrates all opposition

please pray because this is a serious biblical aspect we as a christian should practice in our secret prayers and during our fellowship,,,,,

to fight against demonic forces and spirit of darkness...


Thanks, Paul, for writing to me on this subject on which the Church is divided to a large extent!

Let's take one verse after another. I promise that it will all make sense when i am through. On your part, I request you to be open minded and patient.

BTW, thank you also for 1 Cor 16:14. Yes, we need to do everything IN LOVE. Also, Eph 4:15: we need to speak the truth also IN LOVE.

Now...

1 Corinthians 14:4 NKJV paraphrased:
"He who speaks in a tongue [unknown to those around but maybe dear to self like a mother tongue or his best tongue/language] edifies himself, but he who prophesies (which is with the unction of the Holy Spirit, i.e. a Word from God) edifies the church." Here, merely "speaking" FROM the Bible the Word of God, say in Hebrew (mother tongue) is distinguished from "prophesying" the MIND of God--a greater gift that God gives to senior shepherds to edify/build the Church as a whole (i.e. corporate entity) of being able to listen to the voice of God (a Word relevant to the whole Church) as well as being able to express it in an understandable fashion to the majority present.

Acts 2 :11 explained:
God gave them the gift of supernaturally learning foreign languages and to speak to the people belonging to those languages, the Word of God/Gospel, thus "touching" the innermost parts of the hearers' hearts. It touches our heart because anyone would be drawn emotionally when spoken to him/her in their mother tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:2 NASB paraphrased:
"For one who speaks in a tongue [unknown to those around but known elsewhere in the world] does not speak to men but to God (i.e. God understands him/her) [even though] no one understands, but in his spirit--[say a hypothetical intermediate language into which all tongues get translated before they reach the throne of God]--he speaks mysteries [to God and if interpreted, to the whole Church]".

Roman 8:26 NASB paraphrased:
"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings/sighs [not gibberish] too deep for words". But the power to speak in a foreign language usually comes to us when we are weak the most and exalt Christ the most!

1 Corinthians 14:21-25 NASB Paraphrased:
"In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES [but not necessarily IN those strange tongues] AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord. So then tongues are for a sign [of having extraordinary powers of speaking in the mother tongue of local people such as me having the eloquence of say Tamil even though my mother tongue is Telugu], not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign--[of even more extraordinary powers of speaking not merely in the tongues of local people but speaking the very Word of God for the times, something which can be affirmed by other prophets and elders]--not to unbelievers but to those who believe [for their further edification, not conviction]. Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, [which they each know and that which will be definitely different from each other], and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad [seeing the chaos]? But if all prophesy [which will be the ONE mind of God, interpreted by all language/people groups in as many languages/tongues], and an unbeliever or an ungifted man [of a specific tongue/language] enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all [even though all have a variety of mother tongues belonging to various parts of the world]; the secrets of his heart are disclosed [because it is the Word of God and that which penetrates his/her innermost being having been spoken in his mother tongue]; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you."

You are right: "It (Word of God) penetrates all opposition" in every part of the world because...in the words of one of the Pastors who prayed today at http://WWW.LIVE.NLAG.IN , "it permeates the whole world" having been translated into every language!

Therefore, the Senior Pastors of churches are hereby exhorted to make every effort to hold combined sessions with interpreters, especially when there are Prophets prophesying, so that all can be edified.

Glory to God!
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Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:46 am
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Caleb
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The spirit of Unknown Tongues

Dear Brethren of the Charismatic and Pentecostal churches:

The Spirit of God is the Word of God (Jn 6:63). It has life and therefore power but not the power itself! So surrendering our beings and our physical bodies to some unknown spirit and not to the Holy Spirit, which is the Word of God, brings about strange physical and emotional experiences including the unknown tongues phenomenon while making us not surrendering our WILL to the Holy Spirit's will, which brings holiness of heart, can only be an anathema.

Take it from me, brethren:

I have WRITTEN in genuine tongues what may be classified as unknown tongues, when i was at my lowest and exalted Christ in the highest. Therefore, I know the real from the counterfeit.

In view of what has been shared, the spirit of unknown counterfeit tongues is and has been a divisive spirit.

The Church at large has given the Pentecostal & Charismatic churches the benefit of doubt for this long. But no longer.

God in His mercy came down from heaven and took the form of man to make His Good News make sense to people. We too should do likewise, not otherwise. Let us stop this gibberish (unknown tongues). NOW!
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Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:29 am
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Caleb
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Unknown Tongue = IDOL / False God

"Avoid godless CHATTER, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly" (2 Timothy 2:16 NIV).

A friend who is from the New Life Assemblies of God, Chennai, brought me 2 Tim 2:14-15. And when i looked up the context i discovered the above verse from 2 Tim 2:16.

That immediately reminded me of another letter i wrote a long time ago to the then Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, Mr. Chandrababu Naidu:

Quote:
May 18, 2001

N. Chandrababu Naidu
Chief Minister
Government of Andhra Pradesh
Hyderabad, A.P, INDIA

Dear Mr. Naidu,

SUBJECT: Idols--impediments to modernization

Greetings! Let me introduce myself first. I was born in a Hindu family but i was convicted of my sins and have become a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I take this occasion to congratulate you for the excellent progress that you have brought about in the state during your tenure as Chief Minister. But what we witness today in India including Andhra Pradesh, is the traditional practice of idolatry. An "idol" refers to a statue or something of human manufacture that people have substituted for the true and living God. With the advent of Jesus Christ who revealed the character of God, much in the way of worship of God has changed. Jesus said, "God is spirit and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth." The Bible records in Acts 17 what an apostle of Jesus Christ had to say to those who worshiped idols. He said to them, "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious... we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent." I believe when we reduce God to an image or an idol of our making, we are putting restrictions on our perception of who God is and our minds don't look further. We stop thinking, having got the "darshan" of "God." Indeed the Bible teaches us that idols are a "snare" and we will become like them if we worship them. But it is the invisible yet living God that causes our curious minds to think and imagine. And it is this thinking and imagination that is behind every modern society.

I wish we all stop for a moment and think through this matter. Man has been advancing but his environment has not.

Sincerely yours,

Caleb Suresh Motupalli.


From the above reminder, the following Word came as a lightening bolt from God:

"I believe when we reduce God (Word -- John 1:1) to an image or an idol (Unknown Tongue) of our making, we are putting restrictions on our perception of who God (Logos -- concept and expression thereof) is and our minds don't look further. We stop thinking, having got the "darshan" (utterance) of "God" ("Unknown Tongue"). Indeed the Bible teaches us that idols are a "snare" and we will become like them if we worship them ([2 Tim 2:16]). But it is the invisible [unutterable -- Rom 8:26] yet living God (Spirit/Word, who only translates Himself into a language that we understand to make Himself understood, where the incarnation of the right Arm of God as the Lord Jesus Christ is the epitome of that revelation) that causes our curious minds to think and imagine. And it is this thinking and imagination that is behind every modern society/[body]."

Therefore, Unknown Tongue = IDOL / False God.
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Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:07 am
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Caleb
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code to talk to angles?

I believe we need not add anything more than which is listed for the armor of God (Eph6) in order to fight the devil. Our Lord actually asked us to shout from the rooftops what we hear softly in our ears. It is only fear that causes us to be secretive.
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Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:12 pm
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Caleb
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Unknown tongue = Mantra?

Perhaps a convert from Indian Brahminism who spoke mantras in his past may have been the first person who spoke in these so called "unknown tongues."
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~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~
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